Bigotry

Another gem from Bilerico where one of the denizens has decided they get to tell women who they are. Despite repeated explanations on why it is bad form for men to dictate terms to women, the drumbeat goes on.

Phil Reese decided to take us to task for not accepting self-declared non-women into our midst, never mind that other women (the kind without a surgical background) do not accept them either. Apparently to Phil, our opinions do not rate as high as “real women’s” opinions. Now wouldn’t that seem to be bigotry? Here’s a brief look at some of the highlights:

“A debate has been raging this week on Bilerico about women like Rachel or Dallas, or men like my friend CJ in Michigan or Scott Turner-Schofield in Atlanta. Women are questioning whether or not Rachel is a woman. These were not women born women, “natal women,” or whatever term you prefer. These are “women of an operative past.” Some may call them transsexual women, but not everyone agrees with being labeled as transsexual. They transitioned, now they are women.”

Phil points out that we aren’t “natal” women in order to diminish our voices.

“I support choosing your own label, and applaud them for their courage. The only problem is some of these women don’t feel the same way.”

And so do I. You can label yourself however you like. What you cannot do is suddenly develop a birth condition. The argument is about who is “transsexual”, not who is a woman. This is typical sleight of hand in this discussion as is usual in GLBT circles.

“I appreciate what the women of operative past have been through, and support them as women. If you do not want to be called by a ‘trans-‘ term, I understand. You’ve struggled and you’ve had to deal with a lot of doubt and oppression.”

That’s mighty white of you Phil. I bet some of your friends are women of operative past too. But what are you really setting up?

“In an effort to understand some of these comments, I visited a linked blog–and right away was greeted with bad vibes in the title “TG Nonsense.” This is a woman who embarked on her own journey to be accepted as a woman. But now that she’s arrived, she seems to have a huge problem with people who are going about that passage in a different way.”

And what passage would that be? From what to what?

“According to Merriam-Webster, a bigot is “a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.”

Here we go again.

“The disdain and dehumanizing language on this blog toward transgender people, and the smug iterations of how much better the author is because she ‘passes’ can be defined as nothing other than hate and intolerance. So, after reading the blog, I called it.”

There we are! Here come the silly accusations, the snide putdowns of “passing”, and the ever-present mantra of hatred and intolerance.

To anyone who doesn’t see it right off, Phil here has decided that my opinions as a woman don’t count the same as “natal women”, and therefore I am “bigoted” if I don’t accept that “transgender” is the same as “woman”.

First, I don’t care if somebody calls themselves a woman or whatever they want. I don’t have to accept you in my women’s space, and neither does anyone else. You pushing yourself where you aren’t wanted is a clear message of who you are though. Society will judge you, and those “real women” won’t put up with your misogynistic dictation either.

I do care, however, that some people try to say that they are “transsexual” when they obviously were not born with that birth defect. It is a simple thing. You either are, or you aren’t. All the pseudo-intellectualization in the world won’t change that.

A closing statement from Phil:

If you dehumanize someone you are a bigot. That’s what bigots do.”

I couldn’t agree more. And that’s why I look with outright horror on the entire GLBT; people like you come at us with nothing but hate and prejudice. Yes, I understand what bigotry is all too well, Phil.

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55 Responses to Bigotry

  1. SA-ET says:

    Phil “Ohhhhh, NO Mr. Phil” Reese can’t even get the name of my blog correct. When will homosexual men who admittedly don’t have a clue about the gender debate quit speaking to it?

  2. Joanne says:

    Probably never SA-ET. Gay or straight men are men, and well known experts on everything.

    Strange though, isn’t it: you talk about respecting each others differences, you’re a bigot.

    You point out that TS is biological and calling yourself TS doesn’t make you one, and telling the truth makes you a bigot.

    Actually – anything you do to reject your colonization by GLBTQ self anointed experts makes you a bigot:

    Your damned if you do and suffocated if you don’t. Might just as well get down to a bit of good old fashioned bigotry anyway.

    I remember an old psych. lecturer years ago at University defining bigotry. He said it was a bundle of negative stereotypes, wrapped up in ignorance and presented as fact.

    Ring any bells?

  3. cassandraspeaks says:

    On the money Joanne. If all they can throw back is an weak wristed accusation of bigotry they have already admittd they have lost the real argument.

  4. catkisser says:

    And now Helms chimes in……..and in typical turn the tables fashion uses the observation I started making about Helms over six years ago that Helm’s tactics are identical to Karl Rove and the neo-cons reversed on me hoping, I’m guessing, it will provoke a personal retort from me that will allow Bil to ban me.

    Helms is a monster, a vicious sociopathic monster with severe bipolar problems (not my diagnosis, one from an actual psychiatrist)

    Dyss is also a self described sociopath..said so straight out as part of a threat against Susan Taylor on her blog. It should have been left up as evidence.

    Bats has more fetishes than I thought it was possible to find in a single human being and has also, in the past on Pam’s admitted to severe cognitive imparement diagnosis professionally.

    When I say they are lunatics, that is literally the truth.

  5. anoldfriend says:

    Just what the world needs, another HOMO-Sexual defining what women are.

    Correct me if I am wrong, wasn’t there a movement in the early part of the 20th century and again in the last half of the 20th century to end that kind of behavior?

  6. catkisser says:

    Yeah, now we also have Helms’ proclaiming we all will be soon banned from Bilerico, Dyss doing a Rep Joe Wilson imitation screaming “you lie!” in response to every one of our comments there. Helms serving up the observation I made about him (I’m finished with the political correctness of calling this man “she”) six years ago that he and his buds have been using the Rove tactics for years of accusation of opponents of exactly what they then turn around and do. Back then I raised the question if Rove learned it from them or vice versa since so many crossdressers are dyed in the wool neo-cons.

  7. Leigh says:

    They are being stood up too! and as men they really don’t like it. Keep up the pressure girls!

  8. anoldfriend says:

    Keep up the good work lidies, I wish I was there.

    Mr Helms once again calls us men, Out of the mouth of a transvestite comes an accurate description of himself.

  9. Holly says:

    I`m to out spoken to be a liddie anoldfriend.
    LOL, some dry humor, learning from leigh..
    I can`t post on bilerico was banned long ago, so don`t follow much there. One thing is obivious tho
    is it`s a homosexual site for homosexual people who
    only speak for a small amount of people.
    Remember PLO, proud-loud-out their mantra.
    Mr phil & jasper what a pair…..
    Have a nice day…

  10. anoldfriend says:

    Holly;
    I was banned also, they won’t get any support from me as long as they hijack the term TS or claim TS belong to their group.

    Time to let my congress persons, both left and right know I don’t support ENDA as long as it includes transvestites and fetishists.

  11. lisalee18wheeler says:

    I was thinking last night it’s long past time to try to testify before one of the sub-committees. Before it’s too late.

  12. Leigh says:

    Holly .. I do tend to rub off on some … sorry ’bout that 🙂

  13. anoldfriend says:

    Lisalee;
    This would be a darn good time to testify against Tee-Gee inclusion in ENDA.

  14. Aria Blue says:

    I think it’s already past. I’m pretty sure they’ve dropped “gender expression” and only have “gender identity” in ENDA now. I’m waiting to hear the arguments for how the identity phrase covers crossdressing at work, but I don’t think it will go anywhere.

    After ENDA passes it will just make these people worse off, because the differences between us and them will become more stark in the public mind. Right now, I think ENDA is a win for us.

  15. anoldfriend says:

    They are too short sighted to see how it harms them. They think an affirmative action package comes with it including Tranny-Cards for everyone swipe at the next job interview. They think everyone will bow to their demands and locker rooms all over the country will suddenly be open to those penis packing people.

  16. catkisser says:

    they are insane, no other word applies as accurately.

  17. Joanne says:

    Obsessive-compulsive delusions can get pretty serious. I mean people can starve themselves to death once they’re caught up in the eating disorders.

    I guess if your mindset is locked into an irrational loop like that, you maybe can’t see how improbable your own behavior is, or that other people can.

    Its all a bit sad really.

  18. catkisser says:

    And back to the original posting 🙂 How does Phil the gay male arbitrator of all things trans wind this all up? Private email to me calling me every name in the book and stating boldly that any use of tranny or transie was hate speech and a posting on the entry saying transgender is to be an inclusive term because a couple of alleged post corrected women have no problem with it.

    Huh???? Tranny and transie never started out as hate speech, they were the names used within the community and coined there. Part of trans history is tied to them such as the first trans themed comic book, Tranny Towers (yes I have a copy) and Transie House where LGBt heroine Sylvia Rivera lived the last five years of her life (yes I knew her)

    Tranny is now hate speech because a couple of crossdressers don’t like how gay men use it…..because that’s the reality, the “negative” use is basically from the gay men. Transgender deeply offends hundreds if not thousands of post corrected or about to be post corrected women when applied to them, and that’s ok cause some rouge autogynophile has no problem with it?

    This is the face of mysogyny and gynophobia literally. Phil boy, if we are bigots, you are much much much worse.

  19. catkisser says:

    Here’s an additional thought.

    Gay boys and transvestites get away with this because they literally changed the dialogue and got anti-defamation groups to buy into this. Those groups are not going to listen to us, hell, I’ve used the girl-illa tactic of using GLAAD’s own defamation report on their website to file defamation complaints against them….it’s ignored.

    But what can be done is to create an Anti-Defamation group of our own, put up a website, write complaints to media outlets and newspapers when they call a woman of history a transgender and keep it up.

    Start a movement, change the dialogue back.

    Call people like Phil out.

  20. catkisser says:

    Further thought…..you must avoid using the language of defamation yourself, but you can put up a specific page dedicated to the Neo-Gynophobe of the Week..put up Bil’s pic, put up Phil’s pic change it every week to who ever pulls this. This can work.

  21. Leigh says:

    Several of us us have discussed what you are proposing. It is a good idea in my opinion and there is no doubt about it that we simply have to get this out to the media in order to get any real changes.

    There are problems.

    1. Who will do it. To be done well, a website must be constantly updated with content. It can be a time consuming affair. Most of us have other commitments and as far as I am aware I am probably the only one among us that has the technical know how to design and maintain the site, which doesn’t include writing articles for it. It’s not like blogging. I have written and maintained several ecommerce websites over the past ten years and in fact derive my income from their profitability.

    2. Where is the money coming from. Anyone can put up a website, however, getting that website onto the front pages of a google search will require some pay-per-click money. That can get very expensive.

    3. Promotion. Promoting the site, getting others to link it. Again time. Websites don’t come with ready to go RSS feeds like wordpress does and the really good RSS feeds also cost money.

    Doing something like this has to be done right if any of us expects it to have any effect. Having said that though, its probably a better use of our time than arguing with the likes of phil, dyss and paradox.

  22. Joanne says:

    I take your point Leigh. But there are some pretty classy magazine-style blogger templates around.

    Go take a look at the one OII-NZ used. Here:

    http://intersex-nz.blogspot.com/

    You could do it with a template like that and save a lot of time and effort. I could easily obtain that template if others wanted to use it. I’m pretty sure it was free.

    Just a way around the website problems, perhaps?

  23. Leigh says:

    Joanne ..

    The problem with a blooger template is that it simply doesn’t carry the weight or authority of a website. A website (done well) conveys the impression of stability and committment.

    The website would be a place to launch petitions like Cathryn’s GLAAD petition. Bear in mind that what I am proposing here would be something that would be outside the GLBT influence and available as sponsored links through google searches. Articles must be well written and contain only the facts which must be presented palletably. I would not allow reader comments on such a website, it would be strictly informational and educational. That costs money but may be defrayed with donations and advertising, but the overall site must carry authority.

    There are ways to do this and gain very fast results. I may be willing to invest time and money if there was a consensus from others to invest at least the time to write the articles and commitment to its success. It has to be a group effort.

  24. Joanne says:

    Hi Leigh & Ors. 🙂

    I know that this idea has been discussed by some of you for a little while. I do think its an idea who’s time has come. The most effective medium is a question for those who have a better understanding of these things than I.

    I would certainly be willing to write into it if invited.

  25. An important point to keep in mind, and which can be very easy to forget, is that both “Dyssonance” and Helms are quite simply put, “a few french fries short of a Happy Meal.” I’m not sure, but “Dyss” reminds me an awful lot of a kook I remember from a few years ago that used the name Jenice Bey. There is both a physical resemblance and a resemblance in their style. But even if this is not the same person, the same style is there. Bey would make ridiculous claims, including once claiming to be an attorney for the Justice Department. “Dyss” claims to be a Ph.D. in psychology. I doubt that is an more honest that Bey’s claim to be an attorney. “Dyss” is one of those who simply ignores what people actually says, and then tends to resort to straw arguments, while accusing the other person of using straw arguments. Not the most clever approach, but one that can work in that it frustrates the person trying to refute them.

    I remember a similar character I encountered years ago. We were in a religion discussion group, and he made a rather ridiculous claim. After going back and forth for a while, I went to the library, spent a few hours, and produced a quite scholarly presentation that totally demolished his claims. Using Greek, Hebrew, and Latin I showed where the claim he was making was based on faulty information. He was silent for several days. I waited for him to either make a counter-argument, or to admit defeat. Instead, when he returned, he just pretended that I had said nothing, and repeated his clearly absurd and false claims.

    So, don’t let Helms and Dyss get to you. They probably believe they are cleverly destroying everyone’s positions and are being extremely clever. It does not remotely occur to them that the only thing they have going for them is a very uneven playing field. That is why they never respond to blogs where they don’t have the upper hand.

    I rarely ban anyone from my blog (I’ve only done it once), but Bilerico tosses people for far less than Helms gets away with regularly. Helms knows, deep down, that without that advantage he would lose every time.

  26. BTW, speaking of “Dyss” I noticed said person quoted Harry Benjamin in what might, at first glance, appear to be a devastating blow to the view that transsexualism and transvestism are two separate things. Unfortunately for “Dyss,” what was quoted was an isolated statement, and completely out of context. Benjamin is actually, and quite correctly for that point in time, saying “Hey, we need to look at this more. This is how things MIGHT be, but they need more study.” Of course, now we know better, the additional research Benjamin calls for having been conducted.

    And even as Benjamin is making the vague statements that “Dyss” takes advantage of, you can see that he does not fully accept that they are all the same thing. In fact, in the full version of his scale, he clearly differentiates between transvestites, which he calls “Group 1,” Non-ops, which he called “Group 2,” and Transsexuals, which he called “Group 3.” And at the end of the chapter, he makes the following statement, which puts it all in context:

    The transvestite has a social problem.
    The transsexual has a gender problem.
    The homosexual has a sex problem.

    A bit archaic, but devastating to Dyss’ attempts to obfuscate and bluff.

  27. Aria Blue says:

    Yes, I know. Dyss quotes out of context, disingenuously. There is nothing devastating about Dyss’s “arguments”. They are just pure lies, and everyone knows it. Benjamin knew “transsexual” was a physical issue, and believed it was rooted in biology. There is no arguing that.

    The people who push TG all over everyone aren’t nearly as bright as they pretend to be. They are just obnoxious and pushy. And see where it has got them- written out of ENDA.

  28. Oh, I know that the arguments are not “devastating.” I was being…ironic. Benjamin, like any good scientist, fudged a bit on stuff that was not settled. That way, if one is honest, they can go back and read his books and say, “Well, we know more now,” and not say, “Good grief he was full of crap,”

    Yes, thank goodness they are out of ENDA.

  29. Leigh says:

    You are correct but …

    How many of those at bilerico actually know that dyss is quoting out of context, or will believe what you say over what dyss says ..

    because you know darn well they are not going to go read it for themselves !

    DYSinformation .. works every time 🙂

  30. Joanne says:

    I’m way down here at the bottom of the world, so I cannot properly comprehend American identity or minority politics.

    Forgive me if the question sounds stupid, but I need to understand this:

    Why does Bilerco matter so much?

    In a New Zealand context Bilerco is totally irrelevant. It influences nobody and I doubt if most people have ever heard of it. To be honest with you I, personally, have never visited it.

    There is very clearly, a different situation in the USA. Why?

  31. Well Leigh, you do have a point. On the other hand, those people are not going to believe anything that contradicts their opinions…what you might call invincible bigotry.

    But then again, those who don’t care about the truth don’t really matter. It’s the ones who might be persuaded that count.

  32. Aria Blue says:

    Because in the US, places like Bilerico become focal points for the process of gay male dominance over the transsexual issue. The gay and lesbian audience need to be made aware that all is not right in GLBTG land. If all they ever hear from is the (gay) TG echo chamber why should they stop and reconsider.

    Not that I expect them to stop. People like Phil seem to want to own the issue, don’t they? To speak out against this injustice may seem futile, but if that’s the measure of your effort, why do anything difficult in life? Sometimes you have to do what is right simply because it is.

    Lies must be opposed.
    Aggression must be opposed.
    Misogyny from males must be opposed.

    I don’t accept Phil’s authority. I reject him and all who would claim us as their own. And I’m surprised the hardcore TG themselves allow gay men to dominate them the way they do.

  33. catkisser says:

    When writing or commenting on a place like Bilerico it is important to understand that the movers and shakers also read it and never comment.

    When I reply to something on a blog like that I try to always remember that my actual audience is not the person I’m replying to but those unseen who never respond.

    Kelly Winters will alway fail in trying to get trans anything out of the DSM simply because so many lunatic trans of all types keep exposing their insanity in plain view.

    What to influence someone in politics or the psych community normally out of your reach? It’s fairly simple. Both groups are mostly comprised of egomanics who have staffers google their names constantly. Mention their name and make reasoned and clear comments….do it often enough and you influence how they think. Insult them and you do the opposite, witness Andrea James and Lynn Conway and their epic battles.

  34. anoldfriend says:

    Wow you guys have been busy fighting the good fight.
    Good work!

    An Anti-Defamation site is a good idea.

    Jen;
    Dys is not Jeniece Bay, I saw Bay here a little over a year ago, said person is still in this aria.

    Unfortunately the discussion on bilerico long ago had taken it’s intended turn which was an attempt to make classic TS / HBS look as though they have no credibility. Which is very easy to do when We don’t control the discussion.

    This Neogynophobe contributor has control over the discussion.

    I just keep doing what I have been doing; since the christian right is not my enemy and the enlightened ones know the bible supports transition I am just another voice in the mainstream calling out the Gays on their actions.

  35. Stephanie says:

    ““Dyss” claims to be a Ph.D. in psychology.”

    I very much doubt she has a PhD in anything. It just doesn’t ring true. Her whole style of writing and argument is quite typical of someone who is bright but completely self-taught. I’ve just had a little exchange with her on her blog and it was quite clear to me that she didn’t actually understand some of the terms I was using.

  36. Aria Blue says:

    A lot of us are used to seeing the TG position posted as walls of text, and assuming that means they’ve won. To any rational observer, all they end up doing is looking like a bunch of lunatics. Post after post of patent lies, lies which are obvious to anyone, do not convince an audience.

    Clear, concise statements of truth are not to be avoided if they cause these pustulent eruptions. Fearmongering and terrorism of that sort is how these types of people have silenced us in the past. I don’t care how people like Dyss and the others may lie. They know the truth, we know the truth, and anyone reading already knows the truth. Who does everyone think we are trying to convince on that blog? I post in gay venues as a gesture of defiance against male domination of the transsexual discourse.

    Nobody believes that transvestite is a birth defect. Everyone knows it is a sexual fetish. They can claim that transvestite is the same as transsexual all they want, it just makes them look foolish.

    If stating the truth is going to bring a torrent of nonsense, then so be it.

  37. Joanne says:

    Hi AriaBlue 🙂

    You said:

    Clear, concise statements of truth are not to be avoided if they cause these pustulent eruptions. Fearmongering and terrorism of that sort is how these types of people have silenced us in the past. I don’t care how people like Dyss and the others may lie. They know the truth, we know the truth, and anyone reading already knows the truth.

    That is an accurate a summation of my own attitude. The way I see it there are a bunch of pretty independent thinkers here. Each of us has worked through the ideological pseudoscience of transgenderism and seen it for what it is: identity politics in drag.

    Once our biological experience is converted into an identity issue anybody who feels so inclined can claim to “identify” as TS. They don’t live the biological experience. But they demand ‘speaking rights’ over it, as if they did.

    Without the biological experience, the self- identifiers tell a different story from ours. That different story is given more credibility than our own lived experience by the GLBTQXYZ identity politicians, and the gender theorists who are, after all, nonces. And not a great deal different from other nonces when push comes to shove.

    That situation has been evolving for over fifty years. Our problem is how to take control of our own stories so we can explain our own lived experiences.

    That’s how I see it anyway.

  38. SA-ET says:

    Dysonnance has said on her blog that she has a Ph.D. in Sociology (not psychology), and implied on Susan’s TG Forum that she is a qualified psychologist, saying: ““Those of us on the board who are qualified psychologists may have some serious questions about that part.”

    She also says she has sat for the bar, saying: ““Oh, and I have taken the bar. And passed it. And it sucked, and I am still not a laywer”…which implies that she also has a law degree for in order to sit for the bar, one has to have completed a law degree at an institution approved by the Council of the Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar of the American Bar Association.

    Born in 1965, sometime after being 18 years old (1983) she entered the service, evidently for just two years for her resume picks up in 1985. She says she did her initial work in sociology in the military before going to the University of Arizona where she was “specializing in taking a poor performing unit and making it an outstanding performer. She also says she “entered a specialty college program during this time as well, earning recognition for her understanding of cost controls and their implementation.”

    She also claims to be a “diversity trainer” and “independent business owner”.

    She also admits she has never had GRS, but claims to have a valid Arizona birth certificate. As she has fathered a son, if that is the truth and as the qualifications for a birth certificate in Arizona must include an “original letter from your SRS surgeon, and an original or certified copy of the court order for your name change”…if she does have an Arizona BC, she got it by fraud, or a mistake of some sort.

  39. As I said, I wasn’t sure if it was that person, or not. The style was similar. Especially the claims of superiority and the false use of credentials. Of course, if I were willing to spend the money, I could easily pick up a Ph.D. from the The Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality right here in San Francisco. They are not real picky about things like having an undergraduate degree. That is the one where Anne Lawrence got a Ph.D. But no, I agree, Dyss just does not strike me as having that level of training.

  40. SA-ET says:

    By the way…none of what I just posted is what I say, but what anyone who wants to wade through her blog can read for themselves…in dysonnance’s own words. *shrug*

  41. Okay… Now I know Dyss is a nut case. Or very much a liar. Actually, for what it is worth, in California, you can become a lawyer without a law degree. It requires, if I recall correctly, five years of working for a lawyer who has to certify that you spent a certain number of hours per week discussing the law. And, of course, you have to pass the bar exam. In this state you can also attend law school by correspondence course. I doubt your license would be recognized by any other state, but things are a bit weird here.

  42. As regards Bilerico, I would hope that anyone, with a shred of intelligence, could see that any debate there is going to be flawed. They tend to ban those who present valid arguments that refute the party line. If nothing else, the favored few start posting insults, and then when someone responds in kind, they get banned, and all of their posts are deleted. If that doesn’t work, they just claim that something was an insult, and do it anyway.

  43. i got into it with Dyssonance over instant message.

    She wrapped up partial truths of that ‘discussion’ with lies, and then presented it on her blog.

    Betraying any trust i had given her, despite our differences, and destroying any benefit of the doubt i may have had for her.

    i am going to burn their little fantasy world down if it’s the last thing i do.

  44. ATG, that is reprehsible. I never reveal stuff from private conversations without permission. I can’t say that I am surprised though.

  45. cassandraspeaks says:

    Sometimes I wonder why anyone bothers with Dyss at all. I’ve been as guilty as anyone but whenever anyone does get into a head on clash with that psychopath, all that happens is you end up with more of the same and the whole thing strikes me as a total waste of time energy and computer bandwidth. It’s like wrestling with a pig. You both end up filthy but the pig really enjoys it.
    The more you engage with Dyss the better Dyss likes it because it feeds that over inflated male ego. Dyss is a transvestite, a drag queeen, a typical TG in every aspect in point of fact I see little difference between Dyss and Jasper. Except Jasper Gregory is rather more intelligent.

  46. Sara says:

    ATG you are a couple weeks behind me. I burned that bridge a while ago and scattered the ashes to the winds. And I agree with Cassandra that her behavior, demeanor, approach, and ideas all speak male. I really tried to give her the benefit of the doubt as I know her personally. But to no avail.

    It does seem like one’s energy is sucked into a black hole when one engages her. However she does have some sort of following on PHB and other gay-centered blogs. I think it’s still worth the fight.

    Sara …

  47. Leigh says:

    Ya know what frosts my ass about the teeGees among many things, the constant harping on discrimination, bigotry and your favorite flavor of ..phobia.

    In all our writings here and elsewhere, do you ever see any of us harping on about these things? The transgenders say that they are just like us, but the fact of the matter is if they where they would be able to navigate though life without the constant need to brand eveyone that disagrees with them as bigots, hateful, self loathing and privledged.

    It really gets old. We have many of the same issues in life, people get on our case about the same damn things, we get turned down for jobs, fired, laid off, sometimes discriminated against. We are branded with the same disdain as them by association, are considered gay by the right wing fundies, risk the same branding, yet we never go on about how we are discriminated against. We dont go around calling everyone bigots and branding everyone hateful.

    Recently, I was working on getting some SBA funding through my bank. The government paperwork includes one about personal history which requires by law and stiff penalties that you disclose some very personal information. In point of fact it borders on a right to privacy issue and for someone with a transsexual history it brings up issues that you might want your banker to know about you.

    Ok, fine, I will find another way to fund this, but the heck I am not going to claim it is unfair. This is what is required, if you dont like it then go get what you need elsewhere. Thats the way it is. I am willing to accept that. The rules are not there to punish me, they are there to protect the taxpayer, of which I am one.

    Of course if I were transgender, I would be down at the SBA office claiming discrimination, and when told it was a rule for everyone, I would be claiming that the patriarchy is privledged. When they tell me that nobody asked me to be a transgender, I would be calling them hateful and bigoted.

    Sick of the entitlement.

  48. anoldfriend says:

    A final comment on Dys.
    Dys is intelligent it would be not wise to underestimate this.
    Someone does need to tell Dys to get a real voice. That voice speaks TV real loud.

    I am really not sure what to do about the poising of the TS/HBS/Woman of operative history well by the Homos, and Trannies. We may not have a lot of choice, once a group is stigmatized it takes a whole lot of work to undo that stigmatization.

    There is a good conspiracy theory here I just haven’t found it.

  49. Leigh says:

    CROSS POSTED FROM BILERICO IN CASE THEY BANNED ME

    For the first time in my life I just yesterday read “the Transsexual Phenomonen” the book written by Harry Benjamin. I did so for my own curiosity to see what in fact he did say, and why there are so many people that refute what others post.

    In my opinion, having read and understood the book, and taking into account the period in which it was written, one cannot simply call it the bible on transsexuality. Harry may just have set us all up with this book, for Harry is the master of contradiction, at least the way I read the book.

    He seems to come to a concluion on something, and then he throws in a statement afterwards that leaves his conclusion open to debate. Perhaps he did this on purpose, knowing that science is constantly progressing and leaving himself an out for future generations.

    I do believe that his overall conclusions are correct though, that there is a dividing line between Transsexuals and the Transvestite crossdressers that is the subject of the book. That dividing line, according to Benjamin, is the absolute need for surgical intervention(SRS)and the loathing and hatred of the birth genitals displayed by what he terms “True Transsexuals”.

    According to Benjamin, these are traits only displayed by the transsexual, although some of the other groups he classes as transvestites also go to the extremes of surgury, but are not dependent on it for their very survival.

    This book was written some 60 years ago and since then we have all sorts of advances in the medical sciences and many new postulations. However, the true transsexuals imperitive remains the same.

    Benjamin, by the very fact that his book leaves so many contradictory statements, may well be the reason that today we have the transgender able to simply claim the title of transsexual, even though they may know full well that they are not what Benjamin classed as a true or classic transsexual which he delineated by the overwhelming need of genital surgury at whatever cost, up to and including death itself.

  50. anoldfriend says:

    Leigh;
    You don’t see any of that whining among us.
    We know better, We are borne to make due and go along to get along.

  51. Leigh,

    You hit the nail on the head. Benjamin knew what he was seeing (and nothing has really changed since he wrote the book) but he also knew that it was a relatively new area of study…so, he left himself a bit of wiggle room. If someone made a discovery that called his observations inton question, then he would not be totally wrong. This seems to be very common in scientific writing. Only a complete idiot, like Michael Bailey, tends to be dogmatic about things where there might be new discoveries.

    It is only by taking certain statements out of context that Dyss can make outrageous claims. Ironically, when confronted on this, Dyss sticks to the obvious lies, and ignores the facts. That simply proves what I had already strongly suspected.

  52. Sara says:

    I agree oldfriend. I am quite convinced that the unique lives of classic transexuals are geared toward surviving to get to the point of correction, and then, once accomplished, are ideally positioned to thrive. Going through difficult times breeds successful people, regardless of the difficulty. Which means that entitlement is the watchword of the incompetent or the unable. I mean, what makes transition diffferent than other things in life? Where is the entitlement in professional accomplishments? Should I hire you as an engineer if you don’t have the credentials, both academic and professional? Should one transition (forget surgery please) if they can’t get a job, keep a job, or obtain basic shelter in the target sex?

    I think not. In my world, entitlement = FAIL.

    Sara …

  53. cassandraspeaks says:

    KD, as a woman who has a great deal of experience with having my identity ripped off by transgender wannabees, I can kind of understand where you stand on this issue. You know, it isn’t transsexual you need worry about it’s transgender. Go after them not us. We are not calling ourselves a subset of intersex but Tg are trying to do so. In fact worse because they are saying intersex is a subset of transgender. Transsexuals have suffered this kind of treatment for years and are as indignant about it as you are. I’ll say this again, we are not your enemy.

  54. Joanne says:

    Hi Cassandra
    You’re wasting that argument on Nick, I’m afraid.

    For those who haven’t noticed Sophia has deleted her blog.

    This is only a temporary measure. It has been bought about due to complaints that she was encouraging “Hate Speech.”

    Nick’s comments were cited as examples. His festering little poultice of a mind has effectively managed to silence Sophia, at least temporarily.

    She intends to begin again shortly, this time on ‘closed’ blog, where individuals such as Nick will not have access.

    Sophia writes:

    I am setting up a private blog called “Nightmare World” which will be only open to friends, as a truly safe place (No Kommododragons etc.) People can
    re-publish my articles from there if they want.

    Best suggestion to everyone else. Moderate your comments section and don’t let Nick post on your blogs. 🙂

  55. Leigh says:

    speaking your mind is always hate speech these days.

    Just sick of the PC mentality in this country