Just in case

Newer:

I think a very important point was brought up in comments and I am going to repost it up here. I am tired of the accusation that we (transsexual history women, whatever you want to call us) are responsible for the way transgender is viewed in society because we point out that it is synonymous with “crossdresser” now. The people who follow the transgender banner have done that all by themselves; the public is not blind. Don’t blame us- it’s your own fault.

It is not we who have defined the “transgender” term. It is the transgender themselves who have done so by their own actions. When someone appears publicly as a full time transvestite, and speaks for the “transgender”, the public sees what it sees. It has nothing to do with us at all, and me simply pointing out the truth is not the cause of their problems.

They need to accept responsibility for their own lives and not put it off on women like us, or on the general public. If they think killing the messenger is going to solve their problems they are sadly mistaken.

If you are concerned about young people under 21 being slammed with a sexual fetishist label because of the stink surrounding transgender, you should take it up with the people who define it to mean everyone from post-transsexual women to sexual fetishists. They, not the formerly silent we, are solely responsible for this sad state of affairs.

What women like me are doing is trying to create an escape route for those who were born with this issue. You don’t have to choose to be “transgender”. Your life is your own, and it does not belong to anyone but you. Forcing young women to submit to the transgender label is disgusting and absolutely outrageous.

New:

Since I can’t post any more on that thread at Pam’s for some mysterious reason, I am going to continue here.

Autumn is fond of quoting the rather few detractors of post transsexual women as proof we are in the same boat as the transgender. She holds up these kinds of statements as proof we are linked:

“[T]hrough surgery and hormones, a transsexual male can be made to look like a woman, including female genitalia and breasts. Transsexual medical treatment, however, does not create the internal sexual organs of a woman, except for the vaginal canal. There is no womb, cervix or ovaries in the post-operative transsexual female.

“[T]he male chromosomes do not change with either hormonal treatment or sex reassignment surgery. Biologically, a post-operative female transsexual is still a male…

…”There are some things we cannot will into being. They just are.”

I submit that when she does this, it is not the Peter LaBarbera’s of the world saying it, it is Autumn herself. She believes this in her heart of hearts. She sees us as the same and thus demands the right to speak for us all. She is no different than the transsexual deniers when it comes to rejecting the science behind the cause of our condition.

So what is it going to be Autumn? Forget the whole who-is-a-woman argument, that is a red herring that has been played like a trump card in transgender arguments for too long, and it’s beginning to stink.

Do you believe that we have a physiological birth condition or not?

——————————————————————————————————-

I posted a reply on Pam’s House Blend in a thread that has devolved into the usual name calling from the transgender contingent. I’m reposting it here in case it gets deleted because I think it’s an important point at the heart of the dispute with those who follow the transgender banner.

The main issue is Autumn’s reduction of all of transsexualism to a matter of how people “self identify”, despite anyone’s wishes, beliefs, or mounting scientific evidence. Which is to say, Autumn will allow us to be “transwomen”, not women, if we toe the transgender line and accept that Autumn has the power to grant or deny identity based on being a priestess in the transgender order. It’s about power and control.

This isn’t just a problem in the transgender area, its a problem with all dogmatic belief systems. The person who pushes their personal beliefs onto others can’t grasp that they aren’t expressing truth, they are asserting power over other individuals. Their belief system takes on a life of its own and begins to consume people who want nothing to do with it. This is a human failing, not a cause to be celebrated.

Autumn snidely refers to our genitals as a way of asserting that control:

“women-who-have-had-genital-reconstruction-surgery-to-create-vaginas”

Autumn won’t respect the reality of our lives or the condition we were born with. How can Autumn then demand that others respect the way Autumn “identifies”?

It isn’t about who can afford surgery or who is pretty or any of the other things thrown out there to distract. It is not about waving around credentials to see who is “real”. It is about the very real lives of people who are impacted by the false linking of our birth condition to same sex marriage issues and the whole slew of transgender abuse that is heaped on us by true believers of that religion. It is about the fact that some people are born different and we are being labeled, stigmatized and told we don’t exist. How is what Autumn does to us any different than what Blanchard, Zucker, or any of the rest does to us?

This whole thread is a monument to why it is necessary to recreate a separate category for “transsexual”. Minorities are usually ill-served by people that speak for them who are outside their minority category. Regardless of how people “identify” (what an insulting term), there exists a distinct category of people who suffer from a real biological issue that effectively destroys their lives until it is cured. This is what’s important to remember.

This shouldn’t be about some person’s crusade to raise themselves up at the expense of others. Our lives are more than simply a matter of how we “identify”. Our lives are real. Our issues are our own, and not the same as those who follow the TG path. It is not for the TG to assert their political will over us. And realizing these things, it is not for the TG pushers to destroy that difference in the public mind by erasing distinctions, erasing reality, in order to assure that we are the targets of the same discrimination they face- which wasn’t ours in the beginning and still isn’t to this day.

The fact that we even have to have these discussions at this point is an embarrassment for a transgender movement that is supposed to be based on respect. You want respect, you have to give respect. I’ll begin thinking about respecting the “transgender movement” when it stops talking about my genitals as a joke, or miracle of miracles, at all. They wouldn’t talk about other women’s crotches like that in public, why is it ok to do that to us? The list of grievances go on.

Our lives belong to each of us, individually. No political dogmatist owns any of us. We don’t owe allegiance to anyone, least of all people who would do us harm. And that means everyone here. If a cause is right and just, it doesn’t need to be forced onto other people. People will move toward a shining beacon of their own accord.

Think before you go any further down this path; there is an opportunity for real change that hasn’t existed before now. There are two paths. One leads somewhere good, and one leads nowhere. Which will it be?

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55 Responses to Just in case

  1. Kathryn says:

    Well said, Aria….

  2. Kathryn says:

    MMM…Just read through a lot of the postings on that “Pam’s” site…..Ye gods, don’t they realise how totally MALE they are in their attitudes?
    They certainly amp each other up with their TG philosophy, and I wonder how many of them would face up to a qualified psychologist for assessment as to their sexual identity?
    Not many I would venture to suggest, especially if they did what some appear to do…”wear too much make-up, wear too-high heels, dress flamboyantly and behave like a parody of a women”, as one analyst posted……
    Such a creature would never get past a “gatekeeper” for surgery where I live, although I can only speak for my land of course. It appears that some have succeeded though, although I am glad to say that I don’t think I have encountered such a person who has had SAS….. lucky me by the sound of it…….
    They are pathetic, but dangerous too……..

  3. Aria Blue says:

    Thanks Kathryn 🙂

  4. Autumn Sandeen says:

    And just in case you didn’t see my response:

    Aria, you’re wrong on history.

    To quote MLK Jr from Why We Can’t Wait:

    “Just as lightning makes no sound until it strikes, the Negro Revolution generated quietly. But when it struck, the revealing flash of its power and the impact of its sincerity and fervor displayed a force of a frightening intensity. ” (Chapter 1, pg. 2)

    “Since nonviolent action has entered the scene, however, the white man has gasped at a new phenomenon. He has seen Negroes, by the hundreds and by the thousands, marching toward him, knowing they are going to jail, wanting to go to jail, willing to accept the confinement, willing to risk the beatings and the uncertain justice of the southern courts. (Chapter 2, pg. 15)

    He also stated:

    I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.

    So, when you wrote…

    People will move toward a shining beacon of their own accord.

    …you’re stating opinion relating to freedom, equality, and justice, but that opinion isn’t rooted in history — or rooted in the opinions of those making the civil rights history.

    To quote MLK Jr. again:

    God is not merely interested in the freedom of brown men, yellow men, red men and black men. He is interested in the freedom of the whole human race.

    And…

    The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood.
    I know I’m dedicated non-conformist committed to the freedom of the whole human race.

    But going back to the point of the piece this comment thread belongs to…

    Marriage equality, Aria, is your issue, whether you like it or not. Separate yourself from those who identify as transgender if you wish, and say horrid things about transgender people (and the transgender diversity perspective that the term “gender identity or expression” seeks to encompass) — heck, even misgender me and call me names in your own blog because you dislike my embracing of the transgender identity — but because most in the religious right, some feminists, and some courts in some states not seeing genital reconstruction surgery as doing anything for the those who identify with Harry Benjamin Syndrome, or who identify as true transsexuals, classic transsexuals, women of operative history, etc., your peers and you have a potential marital problem. The heterosexual relationships that you and your peers enter into will be perceived by many of those on the religious right, some feminists, and some courts in some states as same-sex relationships. Your surgery is not perceived by most in the religious right, some feminists, and some courts in some states to cure what folk on the religious right call yours (and my) “gender confusion.”

    And whatever you do, don’t live in Texas, Tennessee, Florida, or Kansas, where courts have ruled your female sex isn’t…well, let me again just quote just what the Supreme Court Of The State Of Kansas stated:

    “[T]hrough surgery and hormones, a transsexual male can be made to look like a woman, including female genitalia and breasts. Transsexual medical treatment, however, does not create the internal sexual organs of a woman, except for the vaginal canal. There is no womb, cervix or ovaries in the post-operative transsexual female.

    “[T]he male chromosomes do not change with either hormonal treatment or sex reassignment surgery. Biologically, a post-operative female transsexual is still a male…

    …”There are some things we cannot will into being. They just are.”

    You can complain about my transgender identified peers and me all you want to for all your peers and your potential ills — but it doesn’t change that marriage equality is your peers and your issue, whether you like that or not.

    And, it isn’t your issue because my peers and I made marriage equality your peers and your issue. The religious right, some feminists, and some courts in some states have made it your peers and your issue because they don’t recognize your peers and you as being legitimately women — whether you like that set of facts or not.

    • Aria Blue says:

      Marriage for transsexuals is handled separately from marriage for gays, and has been since the beginning. The law recognizes the difference, and the transgender push to destroy our special relationship with the law in many states where it exists represents a wholesale attack on our status by the transgender and the GLBT.

      We made significant progress before transgender came around, and these attempts to rewrite history are not going to be successful. High minded quotes from Martin Luther King aside.

      Marriage equality is an issue for gays and lesbians, and the only way it applies to us is if people like you attempt to define us as gay men and lesbian women. The only way.

      Is that what you are really saying, that we are just gay men and lesbian women?

      The argument that those bigots who dislike transgender should somehow influence law would seem to be self-defeating on its face, would it not? I can think of no better reason NOT to do as you suggest. I don’t run my life worrying about what a few weirdos on the fringe of a religion think, and neither should you. They just aren’t important, and saying anything else is just scaremongering on your part. In fact, I find the whole running gag with you getting that La Barbera character angry at us over and over to be counterproductive. Perhaps beyond counterproductive… you are attempting to create an boogeyman to scare people into supporting your agenda.

      You just don’t understand that your issues are not our issues. I don’t wake up every day worrying about the things you do, that is on you. Your problems with the world and your view of things do not constitute what is important to me. In a larger sense, the things that are important to transgender are completely foreign to people of transsexual experience. In many cases they are fundamentally at odds and adversarial. How can transgender attempt to dictate what is best when it shows so little knowledge of transsexual?

      No, Autumn. Your insistence that we are mired in marriage equality is nothing more than a way to say that we are simply delusional gay men and lesbian women. And that insults not just us, but gays and lesbians themselves.

    • SA-ET says:

      Autumn…what you simply can not, will not, and do not acknowledge, nor respect, is that many of us prefer to address the issues you raise, when they arise from the perspective of being female…heterosexual females…on those terms. NOT from the gay and lesbian perspective of same-sex. The GLBT perspective has erased much of the gains we had toward that end. It has been, and is, difficult for those of us who hold that position to make up for that lost legitimacy and achieve that recognition when those who say they are our advocates continue – day in, day out, year in and year out – to associate anything and everything regarding transsexualism, including transgender, with the GLB movement. Making that association to the GLB movement continuously only reinforces the mainstream notion that all of us are just some form of GLB and not really either male or female. GLBT advocates absolutely ignore that position. The reason, I believe, is because the vast majority of all transgender are gay or lesbian…and that is why I make reference to the GLB and homosexual T. I fail to see any other logical reason why the trans activist would dismiss our position out of hand other than that being the case.

      I have said for what seems like forever that should any “trans” person feel the need to advocate for the GLB then do so as someone who is gay, lesbian, or bisexual…not as someone who is “trans”. The GLBT is recognized and associated world wide with the GLB movement…that is simply reality; transgender is seen by everyone as just some subset of gay or lesbian. And, that association implies that everyone under the GLBT, obviously including the transgender themselves, is associated with the GLBT movement…when that is simply not the case. And, of course, the transgender, who become upset at every little thing that anyone says or does that doesn’t absolutely fall in line with their philosophy, alienates those of us who otherwise support them wholeheartedly.

      The question I have is why?

      That is a question you, nor anyone else ever addresses. Instead, the trans advocates, yourself included, come onto our blogs, make your statements which invariably tell us we are wrong for holding our positions…and when we try to debate you on them, you vanish and continue telling us that’s just the way it is and ignore us.

      You did that on my blog just last week.

      And, again, I ask you why?

      • Autumn Sandeen says:

        Well, why do you come to Pam’s blog and comment? I would guess it’s because you have a point of view, and sometimes you feel the need to defend your point of view in the face of those who you see as the opposition.

        Well, I read what I’d call opposition blogs and websites, and I occasionally comment. Believe me; I don’t ignore you and your peers — I pay a lot of attention to what y’all say. Sometimes it seems unnecessary or pointless to respond though, so I don’t.

        But, I comment at opposition websites in part because I want to defend the transgender position — which I see as a diversity perspective — because I strongly believe in the value of diversity and alliance building. Sometimes it does seem pointless to confront y’all in the opposition, but just as my ideas are confronted by y’all and I learn and grow because of exposure to opposing views, I’m confronting your ideas and hoping your peers and hope you learn and grow too. As MLK Jr. said:

        Somehow we must be able to stand up against our most bitter opponents and say: ‘We shall match your capacity to inflict suffering by our capacity to endure suffering. We will meet your physical force with soul force. Do to us what you will and we will still love you….’ But be assured that we’ll wear you down by our capacity to suffer, and one day we will win our freedom. We will not only win freedom for ourselves; we will appeal to your heart and conscience that we will win you in the process, and our victory will be a double victory.

        And too, I’ve posted on the Roz Kaveney’s Six Axioms of Trans Activism, and have quoted Bayard Rustin on the job of what he termed, in 1986 and earlier, as the “gay community” {which these days we more properly referred to as the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community}. These statements by civil rights leaders are part of my personal mission and vision statement.

        So my goals include…well, let me quote Bayard Rustin:

        “[T]he job of the gay community is not to deal with extremists who would castigate us or put us on an island and drop an H-bomb on us. The fact of the matter is that there is a small percentage of people in America who understand the true nature of the homosexual community. There is another small percentage who will never understand us. Our job is not to get those people who dislike us to love us. Nor was our aim in the civil rights movement to get prejudiced white people to love us. Our aim was to try to create the kind of America, legislatively, morally, and psychologically, such that even though some whites continued to hate us, they could not openly manifest that hate. That’s our job today: to control the extent to which people can publicly manifest antigay sentiment.”

        And to Bayard Rustin’s thought I add the concepts of gender identity and expression, trans people, transgender community, and antitrans sentiment.

        So, I hold the conflicting thoughts of Bayard Rustin and MLK Jr. in my mind on opposition: with both thoughts in mind, and go to virtual places where my opposition gathers. Where I hope I can change hearts and minds, the last line of the MLK Jr. quote comes into play. Where I see little hope will change hearts and minds, the last line of the Bayard Rustin quote comes into play. My goal, where I see little hope, is to control the extent to which people can publicly manifest antigay and antitrans sentiment, so I’m often confronting your peers and your views as antitrans sentiment. (And, of course, pointing out logical fallacies.) My visible agenda includes working to create a world where it is impossible for people of all stripes to express antitrans sentiments without losing credibility with most of broader society.

        And, that’s just as the efforts of black activist’s were to make it impossible for Caucasians to express antiblack sentiments without those Caucasians losing credibility with most of broader society. White supremacists that rail against freedom, equality, and justice for African-Americans still exist, but they and they’re viewpoints are marginalized. Those who battle against freedom, equality, and justice for transgender-identified people still exist, so I want to those folk and their viewpoints marginalized in the same way white supremacists viewpoints have been marginalized. And, I’d counter that your side are full of those who champion the supremacy of those with genital reconstruction surgery.

        And, hey, my agenda has been no secret. Both the perspectives of Rustin and King are part of my visible agenda, and it’s that has been easily discovered for those who’ve done their homework on my views.

        Heck, I’m spelling it out here in plain language for all y’all to see, so folk reading here have a cheat sheet for their homework on me.

        And, because others can see what I look like, and can literally can see me in broader society because I choose to be visible in broader society, and y’all hide behind internet aliases and are literally are invisible to broader society, in the long run my side has a better chance of having our viewpoints being accepted by broader society than your viewpoints being accepted.

        And because I’ve engaged in sacrifice for other minority populations and ya’ll are behind keyboards as armchair activists, in the long run my side has a better chance of having our viewpoints being accepted by broader society than your viewpoints being accepted.

        And because my views are in line with diversity models, and that I’m willing to work with others to form alliances, and your views represent a kind of separatism and supremacy — where you don’t work with others outside your group to form alliances — in the long run than my side has a better chance of having our viewpoints being accepted by broader society your viewpoints being accepted.

        And not so much you, EnoughNonSense, but your peers being willing to 1) throw personalized insults at me, 2) question my gender identity, 3) disparage me for my appearance, 4) use the wrong pronouns to misgender me, and 5) use language that has been identified as pejoratives, epithets, and defamatory ( such as tranny, house tranny, transvestite, Mr. Sandeen,, putting my first name in quotation marks, etc.) in an attempt to derail me — and I’m not firing back with personalized insults to people on y’all’s side, but am defining y’all with what I see as characteristics of your group (and doing it without resorting to logical fallacies or misstating your side’s stated viewpoints — in fact, I link to those viewpoints so others can read those viewpoints) — well, for that reason too, in the long run my side has a better chance of having our viewpoints being accepted by broader society than your viewpoints being accepted.

        So why do I come here and to other opposition websites to read and comment on your posts, and you go to Pam’s website for my posts and to other websites that are your opposition to read and comment on other’s posts? Well, we both have agendas we’re trying to put forward. Whichever of us has our ideas accepted by broader society in the marketplace of ideas shapes the future. And in the long run, I believe those on my side of the divide win for all the reasons stated above. Hey, knowing and countering your peers’ and your viewpoints are part of what I see as the equation to winning in that long run.

        • hipparkhia says:

          Have you actually read the article where Roz Kaveney introduced her six axioms?

          I have.

          Let’s list some of the epithets she uses about classic transsexuals: “reformist”, “pathologically defined”, “self-damaging”, “self-hating”, “simplistically heterosexual” and so on.

          And the whole point of the essay? That transsexuals, whether they like it or not, must be incorporated into the gay community. And that transsexuals must understand that their particular concerns are very much subordinate to those of that community.

          As for the latter, we shouldn’t bother with the campaign for birth certificates and heterosexual marriage (she was writing before the passage into law of the Gender Recognition Act). They are mere “quick fixes” which are “peculiarly divisive, futile and redundant” since they don’t address the concerns of gay TGs.

          Will those concerns be accepted by the wider community? Not any time soon. Wasn’t it Roz Kaveney who was one of those prevented from using the women’s loos at London Pride a couple of years ago? And that’s in her own community!!

        • leighspov says:

          I just read this self serving and self agrandizing, diatribe from sandeen and the only difference between what sandeen is doing and what the christian right does is in who the out of context quotes come from. In Sandeens case its the black civil rights movement and the christian right quotes the word of god.

          Reminds me of what Senetor Bentson said of Dan Quayle…

          “Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy.”

          …and you Sandeen are no Transsexual Woman …

        • hipparkhia says:

          “And, because others can see what I look like, and can literally can see me in broader society because I choose to be visible in broader society, and y’all hide behind internet aliases and are literally are invisible to broader society, in the long run my side has a better chance of having our viewpoints being accepted by broader society than your viewpoints being accepted.”

          What nonsense!! The truth is the complete opposite.

          You are visible AS a TG activist. People can see exactly what you are – and most of them don’t like it, which is why you still have to campaign so hard to get your viewpoint accepted.

          I’m visible too. There are, for instance, quite a few photographs of me on Flickr and Facebook posted by friends and acquaintances. Only, I’m visible AS a woman, simply a friend and acquaintance of the various photographers. I’d say that was my viewpoint accepted.

        • Aria Blue says:

          I’d also point out that the transsexual goal is merely legal recognition of our sex. The transgender goal is to convince everyone there is no such thing as men and women. We are 90% to our goal. The transgender are at 0%, and that’s the way it will remain forever.

          The problem is that while they founder at 0, they try to drag us down with them. They actively interfere with our efforts to achieve a solid legal status and do their best to confuse people about the definition of transsexual. That’s all they do, and that’s all they have ever done. They have no victories at all; everything they claim, such as driver’s license changes for pre-ops, has been done for US, not them. If the government and the public thought they were enabling men to dress as women to access “women’s space” they would put the “transgender” in their place and that would be the end of it.

          If the “transgender” true believers were smart they would shut their big yaps and be grateful for the ability to access things meant for us. But what do you think the chances are of that? No, they have grown too big for their britches and want to be the center of attention and run the show. Watching the truth dawning on the remaining “activists”, like those at the few national organizations, is getting sad. Pretty soon the truth will dawn on the rest of the tg crowd, and then it will truly be over. It’s been a long disconnect with reality and hitting the ground will be painful. But in the long run we will all be better off.

        • Alana says:

          Aria,

          Finally an answer from someone that actually clarifies the reason we are so different from those in the transgender world and a reasonably accurate portrayal of how the situation really stands.

  5. Kathryn says:

    The marriage thing is tricky, as in most western societies the government does not interfere with religions and most marriages have a religious content.
    It is, of course, the prerogative of a religion to refuse to marry anyone of whom it disapproves, and I would defend their right to hold their views on who they regard as male or female if that view differs from that of the state.
    There is no way that legal compulsion should be used by any state on any religion.
    All that being said, any state that grants legal gender status to a citizen ought not to limit that citizenship in ways that it does not do for others.
    Such is the law where I live. We have churches that will not marry TS/HBS folk in their “new” gender (not that it’s really new), but others are happy to do this. We also have civil marriages between males and females, and civil unions between any two human beings which confer kinship status and property rights identical to marriages of both civil and religious kinds.
    It works….. Mine is a secular state, but has complete freedom of religion…..In practice as well as in theory.
    In posts on this thread I detect traces of (possibly unconscious) religious bias about who is male or female, and who isn’t.
    I am female in my country of domicile as well as my country of birth in every respect….. identity, passport, civil and human rights, marriage….everything.
    TG/CD’s seem to think that they ought to have that too while still retaining their original reproductive capacity…. Sorry guys, it aint gonna happen! You can’t have a penis when it suits amnd disregard it when it doesn’t. It’s a binary world….. like it or not!

  6. annierose55 says:

    Very well said, Aria. Well said.

  7. hipparkhia says:

    I usually avoid places like PHB but I’ve just wasted some time reading through that recent thread. Most of the comments are pretty disgusting but I do rather cherish this paragraph from our friend the mad doctor as she explains why you, Aria, are an “elitist”:

    “Minimum wage jobs here are all service based, and usually high customer contact, and no one is going hire someone who doesn’t look to them like they think someone should for a girl or a boy. SO are you going to next recommend that someone give up living as themselves and return to living as a guy when that’s going to place their ability to get SRS in jeopardy?”

    So, do I understand this right? Someone who claims to have been born a girl but with the wrong genitalia, someone who identifies as a woman, someone who claims to be transitioning shouldn’t have to take a job where they are expected to actually BE a woman!!!

    So THAT’S what transgender identity is all about…

    Hmmmm, a year into my transition I got a job as a receptionist. I face 30 or 40 different clients a day. Yes, my first few days were nerve-racking. But so what? Am I a woman or not? I dealt with it. I didn’t stay at home and “live as myself” in my own little private world.

    One other thing that made me gasp out loud was a comment from RowanMorrison:

    “I knew my self and my body, but the ‘traditional roles’ girls were supposed to adhere to were crap. Triviality, gossip, social nast, superficiality, appeasement of idiots.”

    I cannot believe how many times I have read this kind of appalling misogyny from people who supposedly identify as women. Women who hate female conversation and dismiss female concerns as trivial…. oh, that’s brilliant. As they say, you couldn’t make it up….

    • theoldfriend says:

      I have had 6 such jobs in the last 35 or so years and I guess I don’t count.

      Tell the good doctor her reality check just bounced due to insufficient experience.

  8. Kathryn says:

    Why Aria?…Seems obvious to me.
    In most places HBS/TS people have gained a social and legal legitimacy within the gender/sexual-orientation binary that is most common in society at large. This, the GLB (and TG) people have failed to do for various reasons which we don’t need to go into here (but the “pride parades” don’t help.
    By allying us to themselves at every opportunity, they seek to take on board that legitimacy that we worked so hard and so long to attain.
    When this shows signs of not succeeding (and DSM5 is one of those signs), out come the “out” ones and the “queens” and make all this fuss and bother, which often borders on vituperation.

    How’s that for a “why”….??

    • myfriendharry says:

      I would like you to explain the social and legal legitimacy we have gained over the years. I travel all over the world and I don’t see it but maybe I am just blind to it.

      The Gay and Lesbian community has gained great social acceptance over the years and has no need to attach itself to us. On the contrary they are probably better off staying away from the madness that has become the cancer that is the transsexual and transgender war of words. They GLB part of GLBT in no way needs anything we have to offer.

      The main thing left is for same-sex marriage to be recognized which I hope happens for their sake and laws that prevent discrimination against any law abiding citizen.

      I have many gay friends and I like them and they deserve happiness and ironically none of them really think abut us very often and certainly do not think they need to attach themselves to us.

      That said same-sex marriage has nothing to do with my marriage since I consider myself a woman but that is just me and with a will and a prenuptial I am protected.

      I find it upsetting when I read blanket condemnation of entire groups such as the “transgender” crowd. Nothing is black and white in this world and there are many using the term transgender that do wonderful and caring work for people in need of help and a lot of it is with kids. Are they evil because they use the umbrella term transgender?

      • Aria Blue says:

        Do you consider yourself a woman, or ARE you a woman?

        You may not see acceptance of transsexuals around the world, but here in the United States we have had the ability to change our ID’s in all 50 states, birth certificates in 47, and marry in the majority of the others for some time. The forward momentum of transsexual acceptance came to a halt when transgender started speaking for us, attaching us to the gays and damaging both of us in the process.

        Transgender is simply another word for crossdressing. If people don’t want to be considered crossdressers, they shouldn’t call themselves transgender. It’s as simple as that.

        • myfriendharry says:

          If you actually read my post you would know the answer to your first question. Just to make it easy for you I was born transsexual and had surgery very young and I am a woman and I am as stealth as I can be in this day and age but more important I am happy.

          My comment asked about Kathryn’s claims of social and legal legitimacy. You could change your ID back in the 60’s after surgery but not before surgery. You can change your birth certificate and get married today but legally there are many avenues available to nullify a marriage and deny spousal support or property gain from a marriage when we are involved. Until it reaches the Supreme Court in the US and we are supported there it is debatable how valid any marriage is in legal terms. The battle will turn to what defines female.

          I am totally opposed to any birth certificate being changed before complete GRS just for your information.

          I don’t believe same-sex marriage defines my marriage because I am a heterosexual woman but if same-sex marriage is legalized it will be a step forward even for us. I am of the opinion you take what you can get if it helps. It would take that arrow out of the assholes quiver.

          Social acceptance is tricky. There are no laws that can be passed that can force acceptance. If social acceptance implies being totally accepted as a woman when everyone knows you were born transsexual then I would argue there is little of that and what open acceptance there is is reserved for the children and young adults. Acceptance for everyone else is strictly an individual process and is based solely on that individual.

          Every late transitioner that defines themselves as transsexual/HBS that beyond GRS demands some NHS system provide them with a new face, breasts, voice, etc. is a new nail in the coffin of acceptance and they have NOTHING to do with the umbrella term transgender.

          I would simply point you to the English Language HBS forum and tell you to join and learn. There are many on there that could teach some of the loons in the Transgender loon section a lot about hatred and intolerance. I would recommend reading everything posted by Rose White but I would bring a barf bag.

          So anyone that uses the term transgender is defining themselves as a cross-dresser??

          Does that mean that the Children’s Hospital of Boston Pediatric unit that is at the forefront of helping children and young adults in the US up to 21 years of age is only helping cross-dressers only?

          Nothing is as simple as that Aria and that is the sad part about all of this. If I was forced to choose a side I would choose you but I don’t really like to be forced into anything that marginalizes others and you marginalize everyone in the transgender movement that honestly is trying to help people born transsexual with that statement.

        • Aria Blue says:

          Actually, no your post says that you consider yourself a woman, not that you are a woman. That is why I asked. So what is the answer?

          Same sex marriage is of no consequence to us. It has nothing to do with us and linking us to it is detrimental. There is really no arguing that at this point.

          Just so you know, I don’t care about all the old standard of judging who is “real” or not based on “stealth” (which I consider an insult of the highest order), age of transition, or any of the other ancient canards brought up to create hierarchy. You are either born transsexual or you are not. What you choose to do about it is not the deciding factor. But it is plainly obvious who is, and who isn’t based on actions and the words we speak.

          It is not we who have defined the “transgender” term. It is the transgender themselves who have done so by their own actions. When someone appears publicly as a full time transvestite, and speaks for the “transgender”, the public sees what it sees. It has nothing to do with us at all, and me simply pointing out the truth is not the cause of their problems.

          They need to accept responsibility for their own lives and not put it off on women like us, or on the general public. If they think killing the messenger is going to solve their problems they are sadly mistaken.

          If you are concerned about young people under 21 being slammed with a sexual fetishist label because of the stink surrounding transgender, you should take it up with the people who define it to mean everyone from post-transsexual women to sexual fetishists. They, not the formerly silent we, are solely responsible for this sad state of affairs.

          What women like me are doing is trying to create an escape route for those who were born with this issue. You don’t have to choose to be “transgender”. Your life is your own, and it does not belong to anyone but you. Forcing young women to submit to the transgender label is disgusting and absolutely outrageous.

  9. hipparkhia says:

    Aria asks Sandeen: “Do you believe that we have a physiological birth condition or not?”

    Of course, the TG cannot accept that transsexuals have a physiological birth condition. It contradicts their entire raison d’etre. Having elided sex with the invention of gender they proceed to reduce that concept to identity and a matter of feeling and desire and belief. Mere mention of biology is shouted down with the charge of essentialism. They are all Idealists (in the philosophical sense of the term in which ultimate reality is considered to reside in ideas, ie in the mind).

    On what, then, can they possibly base their referral to chromosomes and the rest when they attack transsexuals? Who knows? You can’t expect coherency from fantasists.

  10. Kathryn says:

    myfriendharry says…”I would like you to explain the social and legal legitimacy we have gained over the years. I travel all over the world and I don’t see it but maybe I am just blind to it.”

    Well… I rather fear you are blind to it my friend… In many countries there is now a place in law for HBS/TS people to be fully accepted, in law, in their brain sex (usually after their affirmation surgery). This has, from my own observation, led to social acceptance at a level heretofore unprecedented in modern times.
    Sure, there are bigots everywhere (mostly insecure men….they “gay bash” too), but the trend in NZ and Australia, and I believe in many areas of the US, and certainly in the EC, is towards the more ready social acceptance of the fact that some of us are born with inappropriate bodies, and once we correct that as far as possible (much like a cleft palate or other physical anomaly) then we can take our place in the gender which was set in our brain many months before we were born. HBS/TS is a not-readily-visible form of PAIS, as has become apparent from recent scientific research.
    You say you cannot see this acceptance and law…. Well, all I can say is that either you have your eyes shut, or you have not knocked around this world as long as I.

    • myfriendharry says:

      A will repeat what I said in response to Aria. There is no law that can force social acceptance. Laws can give one legal rights and legal protection but social acceptance is not easily given but may be earned.

      Were your observations from the point of view of someone that is known to have been born transsexual or from one thought to be genetically female? Perception and the truth are often not one and the same.

      “is towards the more ready social acceptance of the fact that some of us are born with inappropriate bodies, and once we correct that as far as possible (much like a cleft palate or other physical anomaly) then we can take our place in the gender which was set in our brain many months before we were born.”

      You are incorrect IMHO if you believe this is true. By this definition everyone that claims to be transsexual is openly accepted as a woman after correcting their body to match their brain sex in many places in what we define as the Western World. If you pass and nobody knows it is true but it is because you are perceived female. If you do not pass or people know then you should work for Disney/Pixar in the fantasy department.

      People do not understand how some bloke can be married with 4 kids and suddenly decide they are transsexual and need to be a woman. We may recognize this as a less intense form of transsexualism in some case but society does not and I know of 5 cases like this I have come across personally in recent times and NOT a single one of them will ever be accepted by women as a woman. They might think they are but they are dreaming.

      Legal acceptance does not equate to social acceptance which means John Q. Public will always look at the known woman born transsexual as an oddity if not a freak.

      They may look at you and say OK you should have been a girl but try and date their son and watch the shit hit the fan.

      • Aria Blue says:

        Since we agree that you can’t force social acceptance, then why are you such a full-throated supporter of the transgender concept? There is nothing to that campaign but trying to force a view that society will never accept.

        The most anyone can ask in the United States is that they are treated equally under the law. So far, we have our ID’s straightened out, birth certificates almost taken care of, and marriage in a majority of places. No thanks to the transgender campaign which has been nothing but destructive to us and has been responsible for the rolling back of our progress in the few cases where it has poked its snout into our business.

        I really don’t see your point. We should all accept being married under the auspices of being gay? We should worry about what everyone else thinks all the time? Since you were born transsexual you know who you are without that kind of affirmation. Your sense of self is so strong that it went against your reproductive sex, society, and everything else life told you that you should be.

        Why then all the worry about what could, might, maybe, happen to random full-time crossdressers? You should know that none of this stuff applies to any real transsexual. Even the “late transitioners” have little trouble adapting once the process is underway. If they do, its a sign that perhaps the person in question needs to reconsider what they are doing.

  11. Kathryn says:

    MMMM…. I am glad I live where I do, is all I can say.
    Yes….I agree about Rose….she has gone way over the top on one or two occasions, and has been “chipped” for it by many, myself included.
    All that being said, you have to admit that Aria has quite a valid point. How will all this “inclusiveness” help us?
    Answer… It won’t. Quite the reverse, as has been proven already in some places. The TG’s ridiculous demands have caused a regression of the situation for HBS/TS people.
    We simply cannot afford to let them go unchallenged, and if they choose to interpret that as “elitism” them so be it. I believe in calling a spade a spade a spade, a man a man and a woman a woman. GLB/TG has nothing to do with it.

  12. Kathryn says:

    Sorry about the “typo”

  13. myfriendharry says:

    Aria I am a woman and I have to wonder why you were so nasty with your comment after my initial response. If you had actually read the post and not taken a line “out of context” it is obvious to anyone how I feel about myself but just for your edification I will re-post it.

    I am a woman and the reason I got early help was because I insisted I was a girl from my earliest childhood. I had surgery in my teens. I am sure that will in some way offend you because I was young.

    I said: “That said same-sex marriage has nothing to do with my marriage since I consider myself a woman but that is just me and with a will and a prenuptial I am protected.”

    I then said in another post: “I don’t believe same-sex marriage defines my marriage because I am a heterosexual woman but if same-sex marriage is legalized it will be a step forward even for us. I am of the opinion you take what you can get if it helps. It would take that arrow out of the assholes quiver.”

    In legal terms in my home state I am considered a woman because my birth certificate was changed as was my birth name etc. That was the point of the first comment although poorly worded and I am sure my old Constitutional Law Professor would again scream at me to be precise with your words young lady because the law needs preciseness in its wording. Unfortunately I am not about to run this position by someone in the office.

    In legal terms the second comment is accurate. Once same-sex marriage is legalized socially marriage becomes a pact between two people and it is no longer an issue for ANYBODY except for certain religious groups who are attempting to push their view of religion on others which violates the First Amendment to the Constitution:

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    All I need is a religion to accept one woman born transsexual as a woman and marry them and state they support this marriage and it is over. Another religion cannot force its views on another. I am surprised nobody has taken this position in cases. It is why most states accept our marriages because legally they understand denying it on religious grounds violates the Constitution. Even the one man, one woman SJ 16 and HJ 56 legislation cannot violate the Constitution.

    I will admit as a Constitutional Lawyer I would love to try the case of what defines a woman in front of a Federal District Court jury and then through to the US Supreme Court and end this crap once and for all. I would not lose even with the current US Supreme Court.

    I hope this clears up my position on marriage.

    Aria said:
    “Just so you know, I don’t care about all the old standard of judging who is “real” or not based on “stealth” (which I consider an insult of the highest order), age of transition, or any of the other ancient canards brought up to create hierarchy. You are either born transsexual or you are not. What you choose to do about it is not the deciding factor. But it is plainly obvious who is, and who isn’t based on actions and the words we speak.”

    I guess I should apologize for being lucky enough to get help early, transition young, and have surgery in my teens. I do not know anything about hierarchy or what some people think is a “real” transsexual based on old lies and I know the term “stealth” just from what I read online and it seems more appropriate than “secret” although “quiet” would be closer for me.

    The one thing I find in that paragraph is your animosity towards old opinions of what is transsexual yet in the same paragraph you state “you”, Aria, know who is or isn’t a true transsexual based on actions and words. Would you enlighten me what the actions and words are that define one as transsexual which only defines one pre-surgery?? Are you omnipotent? Is there a list everyone must qualify with.

    Just for your edification Aria I never allowed myself to be defined using the term transgender and my parents were the same and not a single person we dealt with from Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Medical doctors, and my surgeon ever used a word other than transsexual when we told them transgender was incorrect but to be honest if I had to use transgender I would have used it to get where I am today. The only thing that mattered was my life and not terminology.

    • catkisser says:

      As it turns out, I am clergy licensed to perform marriages in two different States. So bring me a het couple with the bride a woman of history and you can have your case but someone needs challenge the marriage I think for it to work.

    • Aria Blue says:

      Finally, an answer to a simple question. It’s like pulling teeth. If you are a woman why the massive justification and repeated posting about your strong transsexual credentials, “friend”? That’s not something I’ve ever been interested in, it’s one of those things that grew out of the tranny mindset in those gender groups. I’m not about to engage in a battle of egos with you, it’s not my thing.

      Your posts are yet another attempt of trying to create some kind of “cred” to elevate your opinion over others, followed by the usual attempt to assert the “non-transsexual” viewpoint as being from a “true transsexual”. Which, by the way, is independent of the person making the argument. It doesn’t matter if you were born transsexual or not when you make those arguments, because the transgender viewpoint is a political choice the same as party affiliation. Anyone can push it. Nobody is born a republican, and no one is born transgender. You have to choose a behavior set to be a participant. That’s why I keep bringing up the difference between nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc. People are born transsexual; it’s a state of being. Transgender is performance art.

      Same old, same old. Constitutional lawyer, early(er) transitioner, etc. etc. These are the same games that defined the whole “I’m a more qualified transsexual than any of you”. And usually its done to further some point about “transgender” nonsense, inflate an ego, play internet games, and so on as you have done.

      If you think my dislike of your hierarchy is nasty, just keep posting disingenuous things. I dislike sneaky elitists far more than I dislike confused crossdressers. I don’t have a problem with crossdressers until they try to exert political influence that negatively impacts my life. The real problem with the transgender issue is that the two conditions, crossdressing and elitism, are not mutually exclusive, are they? In fact, they go hand in hand. That’s the source of many of these arguments we have with the professional crossdressers.

      No, I don’t need to define transsexual. We all know who we are, and that confusion sown by people like you are what this is all about. You want an example of actions that raise questions? How about this:

      “I guess I should apologize for being lucky enough to get help early, transition young, and have surgery in my teens. I do not know anything about hierarchy…”

      I’m sorry but this is just too much. Even you have to appreciate the irony of that statement, and how it gives away your intent and destroys your argument.

      I’m going to leave your post up as an example of the sorts of things to look out for in this fight. But I’m not going to entertain any more foolishness.

      • myfriendharry says:

        I am confused by your comments. I have little experience dealing with people like you but there was no harm intended. You asked if I was a woman and I responded.

        I would apologize but I doubt that is enough for you.

    • *ROTFLMAO* i knew it!

      Another nameless, faceless, pointless attempt to assert dominance of opinion through ‘validity’.

      i called it ealier the moment she brought up the age of her transition. You owe me a coke, sis!

      lol

  14. annierose55 says:

    HEy Aria.

    I don’t expect you will post this question on your site as you have chosen to not post my other contributions. (What’s up with that anyway?).

    But just so you know, I don’t see Harry’s statement about transitioning early in life as an affront to your vast experience as a self described TS. Just wondering…”Where’s the beef?”

  15. myfriendharry says:

    I need to

    I have zero agenda Aria. I just have an opinion based on what I have gone through in my short life. There was nothing malicious intended and I realize I am much less experienced than you and probably less knowledgeable on the transgender/transsexual issues but I have gone through the process recently and I did find, as I stated earlier, everyone was quite amenable to not using transgender.

    Aria said:

    “No, I don’t need to define transsexual. We all know who we are, and that confusion sown by people like you are what this is all about. ”

    If you make the statement that you know who is a transsexual based on actions and words then you need to back that up with specifics rather than a comment from me meant as a sarcastic retort to one of your pathetic generalizations that you conveniently never back up with facts or even anecdotal evidence.

    The only elitist on this blog is you and you alone. Aria has a position and any difference of opinion on that position is a threat to Aria because if Aria is forced to defend her position Aria immediately turns to name calling, nasty accusations, and generalizations not based in fact but just the opinion of a very bitter and angry person claiming to represent “all” true transsexuals since Aria and Aria alone knows what actions define a transsexual and what words define a transsexual. Of course Aria is the only one privy to the actual methodology which does raise the question.

    Who is Aria and what makes her such an expert and why is she so bitter and angry??

    • You know, the sad thing is, i really liked a lot of what you were saying, right up until you pulled the tired old authoritarian crap.

      1.) Claim teenage transition. Check.
      2.) Claim support of parents and professionals. Check.
      3.) Claim young age. Check.
      4.) Claim high-tier professional career. Check.
      5.) Claim to be ‘detached and above it all’, yet quickly begin attacking Aria? Check.

      ‘Who is Aria and what makes her such an expert and why is she so bitter and angry?’

      Implying she needs to answer to you. Implying she *is* bitter and angry. Implying she ever claimed she was an expert. Implying you haven’t shot yourself in the foot with typical hierarchy behavior. Implying you are above suspicion as an anonymous troll.

      Aria is an extraordinarily intelligent woman that has the power to make me laugh, mix an outstanding drink, and give me good advice when i need it most.

      Go run for president, anonymous constitutional lawyer.

      • Alana says:

        You might be interested they had a poll in a section Houston paper asking if people supported transsexual marriage, they also used transgender, and it is not a scientific poll but it was well over 90% supported that right.

        Sandeen sort of had a snit over it on her site since it did not include Gay and lesbian.

  16. Aria Blue says:

    Actually no, I don’t *need* to do anything, “friend”. Once again, someone shows up trying to put us on the defensive, and once again I will remind posters and readers that this little blog is about the transgender and the problems they cause us, not about me or any personal issues. That’s another one of those things that always happens when supporters of the tranny agenda show up, they always turn things around and try to distract from the transgender “crimes”.

    That legal nonsense is exactly what I am talking about when I mention the demonstrable harm they cause us. Every time they go up against a court spouting transgender nonsense, they lose. Asking a judge to rule on your personhood is utterly foolish; chances are good he will call you a man. What kind of attorney plays those odds?

    Compare that to the results from a successful lobbying effort of the sort that produced victories for us in the state legislatures where it has been done. This circumvents the court and makes the whole tragi-comedy unnecessary. But then we wouldn’t have our huge show trial and ego grandstand, would we? We wouldn’t be “changing society” or any of that other nonsense. And what good would that be to the tranny agenda?

    I’ve had enough of people coming here and making demands. If you want to continue to play haughty and arrogant, go bug someone else.

  17. Aria Blue says:

    I decided to remove “friend” after discovering it’s a person I previously banned. I have better things to do than answer baseless accusations. All these long term post ops, 40 years past their transition just pop out of the woodwork to share their “wisdom” and put everyone else down. You have to wonder why so many of these middle-aged married women care so deeply about crossdressing.

    • catkisser says:

      perhaps they married crossdressers?

      • Aria Blue says:

        I laughed when I read that :), but there are probably some people who really do fit that description. I remember seeing some of the spouses at support group meetings back in the day. They alternated between having this terrified expression on their face, and being hopping mad at seemingly random things.

        I really felt bad for them. Their husbands had not only come out to them as transvestites, but then decided it was ok to blow the whole thing wide open by being full time transvestites. Encouraged, no doubt, by the success of TG propaganda. What’s bad for us is that since these men called themselves “transsexuals” now, the women developed a special hatred for “transsexuals”, because they were homewreckers and destroyers of family life. Just one of the many sins of the transgender “movement”.

  18. Alana says:

    So I guess anyone that transitioned as a teenager, had parental support, is young, has a decent occupation should not post on this blog or should never ever mention it

    I have followed this blog closely because most of the time everyone is a sycophant to Aria and I find the need to blindly follow some unknown blogger a strange phenomenon but the simple truth is she asked questions and none of you answered them except to attack her or claim she supported cross-dressers.

    As for her question to Aria that was the first hint of confrontation on her part.

    Congratulations because you are now as big a group of assholes as the transgender clowns. The motto is the same here as there and the tone is exactly the same. Anyone that disagrees with them is an elitist and anyone that disagrees even marginally with Aria is cast aside as some elitist.

    Follow my preachings or get lost.

    In general I do agree with many of your views but I have found in my life one does better by answering questions like an adult rather than turning on the person posting the question, even if you hate them, and trying to make them the issue.

    That is the favorite trick of men that run large companies whenever they are confronted with a question or person they cannot or will not answer to. They make the questioner or the whistle blower the issue and avoid the question.

    I now expect to be crucified and vilified by you and Aria because I have never posted on this blog before so have at it. I am betting I get this post removed.

  19. Nicky says:

    It’s people like Autumn Sandeen makes you wonder why you need enemies when you have enemies like Autumn Sandeen within your own kind. That’s why like me as an Intersex person, I try to stay far, far away from the politics of the intersex community and just stay in my own slice of the world.

    • Aria Blue says:

      My own kind? I think you are missing the whole point. Transsexual has nothing to do with transgender. That’s what it’s all about. Are you still confused?

      • Nicky says:

        No, I’m not confused. I’m just trying to say with friends like Autumn Sandeen, who really needs enemies anyway

  20. Kathryn says:

    It’s all very well to get all philosophical, political or ideological, but the essence of the problem as TS/HBS folk see it is that the LBGT persist, for reasons of their own, in claiming that TS/HBS is another variety of themselves……and that just is not so, as proven by a huge and growing body of medical fact.
    One’s sexual identity resides in the brain and is set before birth, which results in a conflict between mind and body that can only be resolved somewhat by surgery.
    With the notable exception of a small number of intersexed folk, there are two sorts of people, males and females, quite independant of sexual preferences.
    Females (whether XX or not) are only comfortable with a female (or as close as it’s possible to get) body, and vice versa for the guys.
    To insist that TS/HBS is just another mental condition like the proclivity to dress in cross-gender clothing (not tht there’s anything wrong with that) is not only silly, it’s potentially harmful for HS/TS people.
    TS/HBS people come in the full range of sexual preferences just like everyone else, and that has nothing to do with their bodily anomalies.
    We all, as human beings, have much in common, but to maintain that TS/HBS is just another variety of transgenderism is quite, quite wrong, and very mischievious.
    The very term “diversity” is being misused by some here, because they are trying to deny TS/HBS people the opportunity to be “diverse” (different) to anyone else.
    You can’t have it both ways!

  21. enuja77 says:

    Aria wrote: “Watching the truth dawning on the remaining “activists”, like those at the few national organizations, is getting sad. Pretty soon the truth will dawn on the rest of the tg crowd, and then it will truly be over. It’s been a long disconnect with reality and hitting the ground will be painful. But in the long run we will all be better off.”

    Truth is in the mind of the believer. We can believe in our own “truth”, but “each and every other truth” follows it’s own course, and paves it’s own road in order to find itself.

    As vague, and dissolutioned as those words may sound, they are fact, and for this very reason:

    If you have any belief whatsoever in God, then take a look back into Christian history…oh say, 2010 years ago. According to Christian historians, a man who was named “the son of God” was nailed to a wooden cross. The nails were hammered by hand into his feet and hands. A crown of thorns was imbedded into his skull.

    Shit happened back then, and “Shit” is still happening today. The same mentalities exist now as they’ve existed for thousands, if not millions of years.

    The Transgender mentality will NOT fall. It will simple push it’s way through all the other Shit, by using intolerance and discrimination as pawns.

    If you all seriously need to get something done, then do more than just talk about it, otherwise the Transgender “Do-ers” will win out. If you can’t expose the “TRUTH” behind the transgender movement, and the transgenders continue to claim “all forms” of diversity for themselves, then you don’t do nothin’ but watch and grimace, as their choo-choo train goes speeding past your station. rachichachit>rachichachit>rachichachit>rachichachit>rachichachit>rachichachit>rachichachit>>>>>

    • enuja77 says:

      You all have the right to say that I’m full of “Shit”, because, up until now I’ve not only seen it, but stepped in it enough times where the “stink” just doesn’t go away anymore, and the only way for me to get rid of it is to quit this life…and please believe me…I’ve seriously thought about that from time to time, just to realize how cruel, divisive, and without conscience some people can be. :((((((

    • Aria Blue says:

      The problem is that you can’t see past the propaganda and seem to just accept whatever they say as “truth”. There is an objective truth that exists independently of anyone’s mind, but the transgender proposition is one of rejecting that notion. It is not important that there are still believers in the transgender falsehood right now. What’s important is that there will be less and less of them over time. Even today, the veneer has cracked and those who occupy the tg camp privately acknowledge what they have known all along; it’s a falsehood.

      You can be negative if you want, but all that does is keep the nonsense going longer. You are enabling the tg to cling to their false beliefs by putting forth the notion that they can go on forever. You are free to believe whatever you want. I have a different view.

      There are -not- million and millions of full time crossdressers. There are only a relatively few of these professional trannies. Stating that we are vastly outnumbered a) isn’t true b) isn’t important and c) is counterproductive. This is another one of those things that people who have been in this argument against the tg for a long time get wrong. All you do when you repeat transgender lies is prop up their position and steer the conversation away from the truth.

      The transgender have set for themselves the goal that they will destroy the notion of men and woman. They will never succeed. Absent that victory, transgender will go nowhere. It was doomed from the start, and anyone who toils away in the tg pit will fade into obscurity as society leaves that social theory behind. To focus on anything else misses the point.

      It doesn’t matter how thick headed the few remaining transgender true believers are. Their wishes does not determine the outcome; results do. They have already lost.

      • enuja77 says:

        Aria wrote: “The problem is that you can’t see past the propaganda and seem to just accept whatever they say as “truth”.”

        I said nothing of the kind.

        I wrote: “Truth is in the mind of the believer.”

        I don’t understand why you would be so ready to counter-attack what other people say…especially people who are on your side. I offer you my opinion, yet you accuse me of saying something that I didn’t say.

        You are blowing smoke Aria. I am trying to wave my way through it, but you still blow smoke.

        Because you say that the Transgender movement is defunct, does not make it to be so.

        If you misinterpret the essence of a writers opinion, then it is likely that this is little more than a game of semantic superiority, and it is not much different than the “king of the hills” game some tg activists, and their minions play. But it’s your show, so lead on as you wish….

        • Alana says:

          enuja,

          100% agreement is required.

        • Aria Blue says:

          I’m not fighting with you Enuja, and I’m not sure why you are turning everything into a personal attack on me. I’m not accusing you of anything either.

          Why do you feel the need to come here and continually slam me by making up “charges” and prosecuting me? What’s your problem?

          I state that the transgender movement is going nowhere, and never was due to the very nature of what they are demanding from society. You are free to disagree with that. If you want to continue to prop up the transgender and make them out to be bigger and more important than they are, that’s your business. You can certainly do that without involving me.

          The fact is things are going well for transsexual people now, and they will get better in the future. I’ve had enough of doomsayers and negativity in general. Just because something is negative doesn’t make it true, and that’s something more people need to absorb.

          One more time: I’m not interested in playing these games with you. If you have something to say about this transgender situation, say it. If you want to tear me down because of your own issues, whatever they are, please rethink your urges. I am very busy these days and have little patience for personality conflicts.

        • enuja77 says:

          Aria wrote: “Just because something is negative doesn’t make it true, and that’s something more people need to absorb.”

          2 dozen smileyclappers

          Maybe you are beginning to understand yourself. That would be a positive step, in as it is somewhat a requirement if you are going to be able to continue relating to other people at the same level.

        • buenasdiaos says:

          To Alana: WAD (without a doubt)

          thanks for the heads up.

          🙂

          To Aria:

          Aria wrote: “Just because something is negative doesn’t make it true, and that’s something more people need to absorb.”

          Geez Aria…. you got it.

          2 dozen smileyclappers

          ps. wow, you already have blocked enuja77. you also contradicted yourself be usurping on what enuja77 said. good goin’.

          2 dozen more smileyclappers

      • enuja77 says:

        Thanks for the heads up Alana. If I was able to find “smileyclappers” I would put out dozens of them. There are none to put, so I can’t. I will go the next best. 🙂

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